Changing Course & Aligning with Your Values

A Podcast Interview with Tiffany Rogers, MA, LPC, NCC

Tiffany Rogers was recently featured on the Still Becoming Podcast with Monica DiCristina. In this episode, Tiffany shares her journey from a 10-year career in corporate America to becoming a licensed therapist. Tiffany describes the process of making a career shift and the healing work that often comes with freeing ourselves of old narratives and coming into alignment with the truest version of ourselves. Enjoy reading highlights of the interview below or listen to the 30-minute podcast episode.  

Challenging Cultural Narratives & Redefining Success

One of the things that we were going to focus on today was your journey to becoming a therapist and how you left an already really successful career. And this is something that I think many of us maybe have thought about and are really scared to do. I wonder if we can start by just talking about what motivated that leap for you?

It's funny because everyone always says, "What's it like to leave a successful career and go and do something different”? And I've started to really think about what that means a successful career because success is so subjective and as someone who really thinks about not just what things look like, but what they feel like, I'm starting to wonder…

 Is it fair to call something successful if it was crushing me?

Wow. Yes. That's an incredible question.

And I think even that idea that something on the outside looks successful, is one of the things that keeps us trapped in spaces that aren't the best fit. So, what motivated my career change to be really frank is that I was miserable. I was really, really unhappy. And on the outside it looked and seemed really successful, but it felt awful every day. From the moment I walked into work or even waking up thinking about starting the day until I got home. It was awful. I realized what motivated me to make a change, was acknowledging that I initially made a career decision based out of fear. I also think it's important to note that it's really, really unfair to ask a 21 or 22 year old person to decide on a career path and to set down this road that you're expected to follow for 30-40 years.

Right. If we're lucky, all of our healthy years.

Right. So I made a decision based out of what I needed at the time. I needed to be able to pay my bills. I needed to start paying student loans. I wanted to live on my own. There are were all these boxes that I was trying to check. And so I chose what felt like a really safe choice, and to be honest, I didn't even look for my first job. I was offered an internship before I graduated.

Wow.

Someone sought me out. That turned into a job and it just rolled from there and so I was passive in this process where it wasn't great, but it was checking the boxes.

Totally. I've worked with so many young people who get that job in college and it's a big deal. And walking away from that, at least for  the people that I've worked with, feels dangerous. It feels like I've been given this and this is a great job. And so I'm just going to see where it goes, but gosh, it can really keep you on a path that you didn't necessarily even want.

Yeah. And I think so much goes into that.

There's cultural narratives that reinforce if you get out of school and you get a good job making a certain amount of money, you've made it. You're set.

Right. Yes.

And nobody asks, "Is this what you want? Does this fit your needs? Are you happy?

Wow, yeah.. Nobody was asking me that in college, right? It was like, okay, what are you going to do now?

Right. There's so much pressure. And that’s the cultural narrative, but then you add on the family narratives.

Yeah. Absolutely.

And depending on different backgrounds, it's like, if you get a job and maybe you're doing better than your parents ever have, that's a big thing. And then it feels like I can't walk away from security and stability.

Right. That would be crazy to do that. That's it. I can resonate with that for sure.

Because what I actually wanted to do when I finished college, knowing that I did not love the industry that I had chosen to work in, was to go work at Barnes & Noble and figure out what I want to do with my life. But it seemed irresponsible at the time. It seemed like I was wasting time, whatever that means.

Tuning In to Self and Creating A New Path

And so I ignored my instinct and that led me down a path that was very unhappy for quite a while. So to speed things up a little bit, at almost 10 years in, I started to really struggle with my mental health. I struggled with anxiety and some depression. Even my body started to rebel. I started to have these really strange autoimmune issues. I went to the doctor and the doctor didn’t have any answers. The only way I could make sense of that was to acknowledge, everything in me is saying, “stop!”. This is not the way. My body is saying stop. My mind is saying stop. My soul is saying stop.

I started to wonder, if things could be different, what would they look like?

And that was a stretch because I think when you get stuck in this cycle, it's hard to imagine that things can be different. It's like you're on this train and you think, everybody hates their job, right? Everybody's miserable. This is the price you pay to work in corporate America. And so I got to a space where I was really trying to dream and imagine if things could be different, what would they be like? And do I trust that I have something more in me that I could use in a different way. I say that now as if it were a few weeks or a few months process, but that probably happened over the course of two years.

I'm so glad you named that two year’s time because I think that that already, I feel myself just exhaling. and listeners are probably exhaling saying, "Okay. It doesn't happen from a Monday to a Tuesday that I realized something," and you described so powerfully that everything in you, your body, your soul, your mind, your emotions was saying stop. If someone listening is having that similar experience in their career, or just maybe even in a relationship or a move, something that they’re ready to stop, how do you start listening to that stop? Does it start just by acknowledging it?

I think acknowledging it is really important. And one of the things that I encourage my clients to do on a daily basis — and I think it takes time to get there — is to just check in with yourself. How do you feel when you wake up on a Monday morning? Is there a dread that's there that hasn't been there for the past few days? And I think it's important to identify what's not working because not everybody will have as drastic as a shift as I did, but if you can point of identifying what's not working, you can figure out how to course correct even if it's small changes.

Overcoming Mental Barriers

What were some of the roadblocks that you ran into during this, as you pondered this. Again, I love that you let us know that this was a two-year process. Gosh, it's just so normalizing and validating and realistic for all of us. But what were some of the roadblocks that you ran into as you thought about this, as you listened, as you checked in with yourself, as you were thinking about what you do want.

Most the roadblocks came down to my mindset and the ways that I was thinking about myself. I think one of the things that happened for me that I had to really work very intentionally to shift is

I got really attached to this idea about what things are supposed to look like in my life and what my trajectory was supposed to be. And I had to really loosen my grip from that so that I could be open to something different.

But the other big thing is as a Black woman working in corporate America, I feel like I got my confidence beaten out of me. This is a really common experience that I wish we talked about more, but corporate America crushes women of color. Women in general, but women of color specifically, and that two-year process of trying to figure out what else is there was also a process of trying to rebuild my confidence and my sense of self-worth so that I could believe for something different and believe that even if my next move wasn’t celebrated by others, it was still worthwhile and wonderful. And it could still be great.

Yes. And if someone listening identifies as a woman of color in corporate America and resonates with your story and the realities that you're describing and starting to build that self-confidence back up, what did you pull from? What were the resources, if someone listening resonates with that, what you would point them to?

Therapy.

And I’m so glad this this is now part of my role as a therapist too, which is helping people to see themselves more accurately so that they can open up some capacity for a new story to emerge.

That's so beautiful. It's just makes me a little emotional… to see themselves more accurately to open up to what their story could be.

Yeah. Because I think that we hold onto these old narratives about ourselves that often aren't true. They're painted by other people, by different circumstances, and that was true for me. There was a narrative about me that I was holding onto, especially when I was working in corporate America and always in performance mode, always trying to do more, to figure out what it would be to be enough and I had to really let go of that, find some resolve with that so that I could understand what's more true about me now.

If someone's thinking about wanting to make a change, but feels really overwhelmed by that idea what would you say to that person feeling that sense of overwhelm that they're listening and they're thinking, yes, that's me. I want to do that, but I feel overwhelmed.

I think it can be really overwhelming. So I think it's important to normalize that a little bit.

Yes.

There's lots of layers and lots of pieces to work through. I think it helps if you're able to share with someone who feels safe, because I think sometimes when you're in it, it's impossible to see outside of it. It feels impossible to see beyond where you are until you allow somebody else with a different perspective to say, "Oh, that's very possible”.

Therapy can be helpful because it's somebody who is not biased. Someone who again can help you see a little further down the road and help you to think through, what are immediate next steps? And also one of the things that helped me a lot is I didn't have tons of mentors or people to talk to that were directly in my life. But I read a lot. I listened to a lot of podcasts of people who made major shifts in their lives or who started something later — started something in their 30s, 40s, 50s. And I was like, "Oh, I can do that." Just knowing that other people are doing it or have done it makes it feel far more possible.

Yeah. I love that reframe, that it's not going backwards. It's getting closer to what's true.

Identity Shifts and Facing The Fear of the Unknown

What are some of the more individualized issues that can get in the way of changing directions?

I think on the individual level, like I said, so much of it was mindset work and healing work. When you and I talked the last time we talked a little bit about trauma, and trauma shapes the way that we think about ourselves and the world and what's possible. And so part of that two-year journey was figuring out how to change this broken lens that shapes the way that I see myself in the world and what's possible. And it's hard for me to just call it mindset work, because I think it's emotional work. Mindset work makes it feel like you just pick up a book and read it and you're done, but it's deeply emotional.

And I think it's a lot of times pulling up some roots of things that have been there for a long time and starting to reshape the way that you think and see yourself. And I think you named this, but it was a big shift in identity. Even though I hated my work, it was how I would describe myself to anybody, by saying here's what I do.

Totally, yeah. We all do that.

So allowing that shift in my identity and also overcoming the fear of starting over, what does it look like to go from having a "successful career" to being an intern or trainee? So being able to deal with all those shifts on an emotional level and still say, this is the right choice for me, this is all okay. This is all worthwhile, was an ongoing part of my process.

The way you described that is so powerful. Is that part of healing also? As you're breaking through different identities that are false and the deep healing work is also allowing it to be okay that I'm doing this.

I think it absolutely is because the question that comes up is why does it have to look this way? Why does your life and your career and your story have to look this way? And I think there's often a lot in that for everyone. Where do we get the idea of what your life should look like at 30? Why are we holding so tightly to that?

Right. Yeah. Who even told us that?

And I think we all have to answer that for ourselves. I know for me that was a part of my healing journey, to ask myself: if I let go of other people's stuff — their projections, and their expectations, and their hopes. Am I okay?

I just love the whole direction that you have taken us on this because it feels so deep and so healing and so counter to like a five-step plan to change your career. It just feels like the deep work. Going into a new path really requires returning and the deep work of healing. Whatever that looks like for each individual and the layers that each individual has to heal from.

Absolutely. I always tell the people that I work with and I always remind myself of this as well, that it's not a quick and easy process, but it's still going to be worth it.

Listen to the full podcast episode here.

Tiffany Rogers is a psychotherapist who specializes in working with high-performing professionals. With a prior career in corporate America, Tiffany understands the challenges of maintaining a demanding career and the internal struggles one may deal with behind the scenes.

If you’d like to work with one of our Therapists we are currently accepting clients and you can reach us at Our Office. We provide a free 15 phone consultation to determine if we are a good match for one another. For more information on anxiety and depression treatment check out our website at www.chicagopsych.org